In this week’s episode, we’re talking with Naira Perez from SpringHill Digital all about paid media, online ads and most importantly, understanding your audience and having a plan before spending your money. 

It’s easy to talk about, but hard to implement. When as marketers we talk about everything being an experiment or a test, we don’t mean “throwing spaghetti against a wall to see what sticks”, we mean educated guesswork based on a thorough understanding of your audience. 

You’ll love this episode if you are looking to start running adverts, or even if you’ve already started, as you’ll gain some real insight into how agencies run their client’s online campaigns. 

I hope you all stay safe and stay home.


A huge thank you to Campaign Refinery for sponsoring this episode. Check out the amazing email marketing automation tool they’ve created.

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The All About Digital Marketing Podcast is brought to you by Social INK, a digital marketing consultancy on a mission to put the social back into social media. 

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Chris Bruno 0:00
This week’s episode is brought to you by campaign refinery, an amazing new email marketing automation tool. Look, in the world of digital marketing, there’s a lot to keep track of. We all know this. As much as we’re in love with social media and the power of social conversation here at Social INK and on the all about digital marketing podcast, we are well aware of just how powerful email marketing can be. Email Marketing is not dead. In fact, it’s never been more important to help you leverage your presence everywhere else into the one channel that you’ll own regardless of what changes Facebook, Twitter, or any other platform makes in the future. I’ve known the founder Travis Ketchum for years, and he’s been a past guest on the podcast, Episode 15. If you want to listen to it, I’ve personally used his other products before and they’ve been fantastic. The amount of thought that he’s put into each and every one of what he’s created has been incredible. I’d highly encourage you to try that free form. day trial at to see what world-class email marketing automation can do for you and your business. massive thank you to Travis and campaign refinery for their support of the all about Digital Marketing Show.

Welcome to the All About Digital Marketing podcast, the show all about digital marketing, digital marketing, digital marketing, digital marketing, brought to you by social ink digital marketing agency specialising in social media and content marketing for brave brands and forward-thinking SMEs. I’m your host, Chris Bruno. And as always, we’re here to bring you the most actionable tips, tricks, tools and insights to help you achieve more when it comes to your digital marketing. Subscribe to the show. And be sure to share with a friend if you found something useful or interesting. You can find all the show notes and more information on

Chris Bruno 
Thank you very much for joining me today.

Naira Perez:


Thank you for having me here.

Chris Bruno:


It’s fantastic. I’m enjoying the podcast of the moment and it gives me something to do. Watch timer locked down in my house aside, I’m sure a lot of people hopefully listening because of the same reason. But today we are talking to Nairo. She is the founder of Springhill Digital and as always. I’m gonna ask naira to give us a little bit of an introduction to Springhill Digital What they do and also how you got into this.

Naira Perez:


Fantastic. Yeah, So it’s been a privilege. Italy’s paid media on ly agency and I call. I call it an agency, but it’s we’re more of a brain trust. What differentiates as is we put a team together for each account. We don’t have employees. We just go out in our network and put, um, in place experts that want to work on back out, but also that have the necessary experience to work on that account. So I believe that if we’re all doing what we’re good at and what we want to do, we’ll do a better job. So in that sense, we’re not a traditional agency. Where were a new concept s? Oh, that’s what I like to call it a brain trust more than anything. But we specialise in pay media for social media or in search engine insert engines. So Google being Yahoo ah, social media with the Facebook Instagram linked in. So we do everything from bee to bee to bee to see

Chris Bruno:


fantastic on DH. Let’s start off by talking right now. Obviously, people are looking around at the world and thinking right, there’s a lot of change happening. What are the fundamentals for you in terms ofthe comes to digital channels? Paid media is a way to reach a huge amount of people an audience, but one of the fundamentals that small to mid size businesses should be focused on before they start to spend that budget

Naira Perez:


well before you start spending budget and any time not only right now, but any time you need to have a plan. Because whenever you’re presenting yourself in front of audiences Ah, that’s that’s your first and sometimes on Lee Time to introduce yourself to a person. So what are you going to tell him to do? What are you going to tell them about yourself? What are you going to tell them about the product about the brand, and how can we solve their problems? They have a problem. That’s why they’re listening. They have a need. That’s why they came to you Now how we’re going to Seoul that so whenever you don’t have a plan off telling them the audience what to do next that is the biggest problem cause you just spent a lot of money introducing yourself getting leads, and now they fall flat. They don’t go anywhere because you didn’t have a plan, so establish a plan off. What next? What do we do after paper media that we might always, always my first recombination Andi, in these times, even even more? It’s more important because every dollar counts. So be effective with all the money that you’re spending big media by knowing what are you going to do afterwards

Chris Bruno:


in that such a big step in again? I always love when it’s my guess that I’m talking to that. Say this before I do so for anyone listening. If you don’t have a plan. Currently, if you don’t have a strategy in place, If you don’t have something as simple as a list of objectives of what you’re trying to achieve, what you’re trying to get out of your marketing efforts, I think that’s a huge number one rule, right? And I think NYRA’s really re emphasise this for us. You really wantto have a plan in place as to what it is that you’re trying to do what it is that you’re trying to help somebody with. And this is something that’s really important as well. From your point of view. Naira. You know, some people say to me when I’m in an agency meeting, but they always say, You know, No, no, we just sell this and I have to try and dig deeper tto help people see that. No, no, you are not selling X. What you’re actually doing is you’re solving problem. Why on I think that’s something that’s really important. How do you help business is to identify that kind of problem that they’re solving.

Naira Perez:


We We’re huge believers in audience identification and analysis. So it sounds. Sometimes it sounds kind of difficult to tackle that part of your paid media plan, because it’s not something you may have spent 10 hours, and it’s not something that is going to give. You are right right away, like knowing your audience better doesn’t give you a dollar right after you’ve analyse it. But it does in the long term, so going into the audience and analysing, where do they hang out? That’s 1st 2nd what are they talking about when they are talking amongst themselves about that need that you’re feeling, um how are they talking about it? And third, is there another need that is very similar to yours That maybe you could feel feel better cause sometimes Brand’s going the market very self centred and rightfully so close you as founders. We’ve spent so much time there helping our idea developing our brand in a product that when we come out and encounter the person that is actually gonna consume that product, whether it’s a service or a physical product, then we find out that their needs may have changed from the time we started this whole thing to now, or we saw ourselves as the target audience. And when we come out into the marketplace, we see that actually, there’s just a few of us and there’s a lot of very similar people, But But we haven’t addressed their needs, so kind of stepping back a little bit in that plan and saying, OK, this state off the audience right now How are they talking to each other is important? I’ve had a client who he was. She was, ah, baby sleep trainer. And whenever she talked about the needs of the audience, you would talk about the attachment and big words that four mums thinking about sleep training. That was not how they thought about it. The way they thought about it was, well, my kid love me less. If I try to sleep, train that the baby by letting them cry out. So that’s will they love me less is the same off. Will they be a tragedy attached to me? But the conversation at the broad level was happening of weight, technical and at their audience level was happening in a more colloquial way. So when are we bring the Bratton ride into that conversation? They have to have the same language. So that’s one of the things that you learn by looking at audience, interact with each other in the places where they like to hang out.

Chris Bruno:


This is something that’s really important as well. It’s what you mentioned. So as founders on, we can be guilty of this. I can be guilty of this, and I’m sure you you might admit that you have been a swell, but we get so focused on the products based on what we think we’re building on what we think The problem is that we’re solving that. We sometimes forget to actually go out there and see what other people actually do want and what the audience really is looking for. And again, like you said, where they hang out, what they talk about, how they talk about it so that you understand how to position yourself What what are some of the ways that you guys do that in terms of, obviously the research element. But if you had to talk to a small to midsized company, you know a lot of companies don’t necessarily have the budget Teo Outsource that will to pay a service to do that. But what are some of the ways that that small businesses can actually do that initial research to really understand their audience?

Naira Perez:


Yeah, that’s a great question. So there’s several ways and somebody involved more time than money. But you can go to the channels where they think you think your audience is hanging out. Go to those groups of people that are your target audience, and they may gather to talk about their needs. So in the example that I just said, go to Mom’s group, go to toddlers groups, Go Teo read the books that they’re reading. Go to Amazon. You know, people love to talk about their opinions, especially when reviewing products. So if you go to Amazon and review books that moms are reading or the York your potential customer is reading the reviews back, well, actually tell you Eve, the books, ah, met their needs or if they’re locking on talking about a certain topic or so, just follow them. And so that always obviously involves time. Another way that we have done. These is in a fun way with small budgets. We do polls, which can be organic, but they’re new to paid media where you can actually have ads that reach a lot of people, and you ask them a question. And sometimes it’s a simple question as yes, now black or white. So we have a client that actually it’s ah, they have fashion for plus size models and welcome plus size audiences, and they have plus size models. So what we did for them was okay. Let’s see if we’re styling the clothing, how the brand wants it or how the audience once said So we put two same same dresses, but we style them differently and ask the audience, How do you prefer it? With or without a belt? And the audience overwhelmingly preferred it with the belt, which was not how the Brando was actually promoting such dress. So here we learned something. Ah, and so we use the polls as a way off asking the audience themselves. And sometimes that’s scary comin, Zahra. Scary answers that is, Carrie, that you’re gonna find that you’re missing the mark, which is actually a good learning. Learn it soon rather than later and off negative comments. People are very afraid off putting, putting themselves out there. But that’s the only way. Starting a conversation is the only way that you’re gonna be able to find out what they need, what the audience needs.

Chris Bruno:


I think that’s also, and I think again, it’s the experimentation factor. Yeah, so for me, everything we do, right? It’s an experiment. I I can pull on knowledge on DH experience. You know, I started in 2008. I started this agency in 2008. We I have have a wealth of knowledge. We’ve got a team of six people that are fantastic that have got a huge amount of knowledge as well and experience on DH with a ll the best will in the world. And you know, we obviously want our clients to succeed, but we sometimes get it wrong as well. Everything that we do is a test, and we explain that very clearly. But doing something as simple as like you just said by showing two options and saying, with or without, you’re going to get that feedback and you’re going to see what the majority of people actually like and what they actually respond to, as opposed to just what you think. And that’s a huge bonus, right when you’re going to the market place afterwards. Being able to change those promotions are being up to change that paid media to be able to show what the majority of people actually relate to is going to have a better impact on sales or revenue or anything else afterwards. And I’m sure that was the case for you guys and the dress with or without the belt, right?

Naira Perez:


Yeah, it is. It is. It can teach you so much. And let me tell you, those instagram polls can be very effective and very low cost because the CPM zehr much lower than on Facebook. So these in particular were instagram post. So try it out everything. It’s like you said, it’s it’s an experiment, but it’s a is a guesstimate. That’s what I like to call it. So you are experimenting, but with knowledge behind it. You know why we’re doing the things that we’re doing. So is not spaghetti to the wall. Ah, whenever I worked, so that’s I’m gonna go back a little bit. Whenever I started in advertising, I started in direct to consumer, which creates this is a fancy way of calling infomercials. I had to consumer TV advertising, but we used to get calls and orders every day, but the most interesting. Instead, arresting part of it all was whenever we got into the scripts and so where people were dropping off in the calls or what problems where they having to convert. So in digital, we get these instantly, we can see where people are having trouble understanding our message and so pulling them. Asking them is a luxury that we have now that we didn’t have with TV, but that we have now. And so these an opportunity. So whenever we’re making tests again, it’s an experiment based off on our experience on Hey, here is what has worked for similar clients here has worked for your industry. Let’s see if it works for your brand because every brand is different. Even Coke versus Pepsi. Their followers are totally different people. They they wouldn’t They wouldn’t cross over because they don’t relate to the other brand. There are people there were always cross over because of prize but, um, or availability. But their followers, your followers, are gonna be particular to you, so you need to establish that conversation. Blast carries whenever there’s a There’s always gonna be a conversation, always, whether you’re part of it or not, so you might as well take advantage of it and be part of it.

Chris Bruno:


I think that’s a very good bit of advice and actually I was talking to a client recently. She’s very much in nutrition on DH, one of the one of the conversations that we were having obviously about trying to build up to the target audience personas, and I kind of set off a little bit of homework for, but it was basically to go on to read it on DH. Start browsing where people are talking about this particular type of nutrition, how they talk about it, what their things are that they find challenging, the reasons why they do it, trying to understand. You know what the background to the storey is so that you understand if it’s more of an environmental decision, whether it’s a health issue, whether it’s dieting or weight loss or whatever it might be, but just to get a better understanding. So I completely agree with you going out there to try and understand that audience is paramount for me. Anyway. I also wanted to double back on something else. You said before that you know, negative reviews and negative feedback. I can’t remember I might get this wrong, but I think it was Briana from Design Wizard who was on the show a fair few episodes ago. But she talked about and she said, My favourite thing is to receive negative feedback. She goes, because you know, if you get positive feedback, it’s someone who loves you. That’s great. It’s done and dusted, right? You want to keep serving them, keep them happy. But if you get neutral feedback or just people that really care. It’s very hard to shift that needle, but actually negative feedback dealt with in the right way is quite a thing that you can take from negative to a positive on. Actually, sometimes it can be very simple. You know, sometimes people just want a certain thing fixed or a certain issue helped with what they just want to feel cared about, right? So they’re voicing out their opinion that they didn’t enjoy something because ofthe X or why. And if you could fix X or Y for them, you can turn that person from someone who gave you a bad review on actually turned them into someone who now rants and raves about how amazing your customer service wass. And I think that’s something that’s really important to many. People are scared of the negative feedback and almost will block any type of feedback because they don’t realise how useful it is or how how powerful it could be for your business, right?

Naira Perez:


Exactly, exactly. And it is also a time to educate audiences a lot off a lot of negative feedback, maybe because they don’t understand your product or service or they don’t understand what you stand for. So it is an opportunity. It is scary opportunity, but it’s an opportunity. I’m now going to discount the fact that we all are very much afraid of negative comments. But again, it’s it is the time to see why is the negative comment there and just dig a little bit farther because people with negative comments, not everybody actually will comment. They will just have the negative feedback in their head and not say it. And so, for every one that you see, there might be five behind that think the same thing. But they didn’t say anything. So yeah, I agree with your guest in the sends off. They’re the only thing worse than negative. Feedback is actually not feedback at all. And that is whenever we set up to do these polls and these kind of questions the audience for their feedback. Actually, the brands I work with are more afraid ofthe silence. They’re very, very afraid of silence. Like what if we ask a question and nobody answers? That is very rial as well. So normally that’s what happened. Whenever you ask a question to your audience that is relevant, that is the key that is relevant. Then the answer will come. And in the liver, so but, yeah, I have a client right now that has a product that is a little bit controversial and there is very strong emotions for and against. So whenever we ran ads with the ability to comment on the ads because people sometimes don’t even know that those are not organic post there, just the sponsor post. Um, and they commit the same as if he was organic s. So every time that we run it, we have a strong, strong feelings voiced in our ads. So I always prepare the brand like this is gonna happen. Let’s have a plan on how you’re gonna answer in. What are the topics listless. Make a point to write down. What are the topics that continue to come up and that we will We will use it to develop the content for the next round of ads because obviously these round is an exploration. The next one we’re gonna help them. We’re gonna help them solve whatever it is that is making them have a negative opinion about these products or service. So use it as a as a planning tool for next content.

Chris Bruno:


I think that’s a great idea. And to be honest, it’s something that we kind of basically with kinds that we work with. We find that there’s a lot of people that end up going so vanilla that actually they don’t end up, they don’t end up actually having anyone because people don’t really care enough right. You can’t find that Connexion with a brand that doesn’t really stand for anything. And if you have a product that is a little bit controversial or it divides opinions like you’re talking about, it can actually be amazing. Blessing, right? Because even if it’s good or this is bad or yes versus no, it starts. A conversation on the yeses will be becoming your brand ambassadors for you as to why it’s good, why it’s better, why it a valuable product, why it should be there or anything else on the nose. I am and not so much on paid media, but it’s helped you with your organic side of things as well. But it just fuels that conversation, right, whether it’s yes, no yes, no, and it keeps going back and forth on our But you’ve got a huge amount, more engagement on what you’re doing and what you’re offering than the person who is just trying to be so vanilla that it doesn’t really you know, it doesn’t upset anybody, and it doesn’t please anybody at the same time, if that makes sense.

Naira Perez:


Yeah, exactly. So we have a client that we have been working for a year on their campaigns, and we started with analysing their audience and kind of a little bit radically changing their audience. And what we have been able to achieve in this here is through paid build a community of people that actually will interact within the ad and defend the brand if somebody comes up with negative comments and defend their product and defend their their services, So it is amazing what you can do with those ambassadors. It is amazing what you can do, whatever you plan your strategy the right way, because at the very beginning we had a lot of the client actually didn’t want as to activate comments, or can we just prevent anybody from commenting because we have a lot of negative comments? And so the first step was, Let’s change your audience because we believe that you’re targeting the wrong audience. So these messages totally not resonating with them. But second, whenever they’re negative comments, which there will be, let’s address them in a very planned way. We’re gonna we’re goingto take these steps and convert them, and just then they will come back and help and be the most loyal customers because you understood them. You showed that you were listening the worst of the worst thing that brand can do. Stop listening or stop showing that they’re listening. I mean, that’s that’s listening matter. If you’re not telling the other person that you’re listening, sometimes it doesn’t like it. Yes, you’re listening, but you’re not telling me feedback back you’re not. You’re not agreeing orgies in the green or solving the problem, then I don’t know if you’re listening, So that’s why going back to be part of the conversation contract conversation is gonna happen anyway. Address their needs, address their negative comments and make that into ambassadors into people that would love you. And even if they don’t agree with your product, they can agree that you treat them well with respect. That you listen to their concerns and maybe at the end is it is a matter off. Okay, we have to agree to disagree.

Chris Bruno:


Yeah, I think that’s 100% right. And it was. I use this quote in another episode, talking about the 80 20 rule, but it still applies as well that it was a Woody Allen quote that 80% of success was showing up on DH way. Too many brands that I see online use social channels in particular, whether it’s paid organic, and they basically used them like a bullhorn. So they’re shouting into this void on DH. They’re not showing up, you know, they’re not. They’re they’re not present. They’re not talking. They’re not engaging. If there is a comment good or bad, there’s no response. And you can see these things from a long way away. And it’s something that you mentioned earlier, you know, asking questions, running polls, etcetera. Every time we have a conversation with somebody, when they’re not happy with your current agency or doing in house or whatever it is and we’ll go through, you know, what have you been doing? What have you been trying? One thing other and invariably, you know, they’ll say we don’t really get any engagement. No one’s really getting involved. No one’s really talking or answering anything or, you know, leaving comments on our posts and one of the really simple things that we ask. Have you asked any questions? And it sounds so silly. Once you’ve heard it out loud and you say, Well, no and you this way Well, why did you expect people to answer? You’re just stating your opinion online or you’re sharing some piece of content and you’re expecting them to do something. And it’s very, very hard for, and I think bigger brands are some bigger brands. Sorry. Let me rephrase that. Some bigger brands are good at it on DH. There they use of social exception has been fantastic. But there’s a lot of smaller brands that have an opportunity to get involved in conversations and tow. Have conversations to start conversations on that, really, you know, they don’t show up. They’re not on these platforms in away tohave thiss, and it’s something that we push really hard for, you know, putting the social back into social media. We’ve forgotten about the social heart, and we just focus on the media. Yeah, I did a great video I threw up online, but I didn’t get any comments or I didn’t get in the audience liking it or anything else. And it’s hard for people to realise that. You know, if you don’t give somebody a reason to get involved in the conversation, the chances are they weren’t simple, right?

Naira Perez:


Yeah, yeah, yeah, way too many brands and especially a small businesses. They think that you build it and they will come. And that’s not how it works. That not anymore. They used to be when there was nobody in Facebook and you were the only advertiser doing hit, then maybe it will work. But now there’s a process, and that’s that’s where we take clients doors that a process off this Think about how an audience member can go from not knowing you, not knowing they have a need to knowing they have a need. And actually now, knowing that you can solve that need that you, khun, satisfy that need. So these is a journey. It’s a journey. Whether you want to call it the funnel, the customer journey, you can call it whatever you want, but it is a step by step. It’s not. Put an ad up there and start selling just a one way that here’s my product by it. You won’t. You don’t go into a bar and find Ah, pretty person and just say, Hey, can I marry you? Let’s go, Mary, you don’t That’s that’s not how it works. You go. You introduce yourself. You see if you guys have something in common, but way too many brands think that just by showing up they’re owed some sort of loyalty from an audience that they may not know.

Chris Bruno:


I’ve used the exact same analogy on various times, even on this podcast as well. But it is that idea of dating, because this is exactly what you’re doing online. And it’s the social element that for me, really upset me when I see that brands of forgetting it and they’re not really doing it, but exactly what you said. You know, you don’t walk up to someone and go me. You married two kids, a house and a dog. Let’s go now and like you know, you basically they would call the police on you straight away. But when brands do online. They think that’s what it is, right? There you go. There’s my advert by this. Sign up. Now get this or whatever it is, you’re sitting there going. Okay, Cool. But what about the conversation? What about the chatting? What about the flirting? What about you, Noel? That elements that are so important for us as human beings on we seem to have just lost them all online by just banging out this stuff for the sake of it. And it has no real relevance for the person. And you just kind of it upsets me a little bit when I see it happen on brands and, you know, you really want to help and stuff, But I think it’s something that you said it’s a journey. You really have to want to take it right. You can’t for somebody down this route. And it’s something that we say a lot as well. You know, you’re better off with one channel that you love and that you want to invest time in. If you’re doing it in house, then you are to be on every channel and fail and never show up and you don’t like it so you don’t get involved in conversations and you’re not talking to people in a nice way, and therefore you’ll get no results from the end of the day, anyway.

Naira Perez:


Exactly, exactly. And I think what you’re saying. It’s just it applies for organic, and people kind of get it for organic, but they don’t get it for paid. They misconception is that you can do anything on paid and it goes and it doesn’t you have to start. Try Ah, considering paid like the same way that you can see the organic in the content in the care in the customer service, because people can comment a will. Comment on your ads in what you said about one channel do it great, better better than anybody instead ofthe five channels that you’re just terrible at. That’s true because people will change channels. People are in many different places, and they need to find the same kind of message, the same kind of response in every channel, the same tone as if they never left the previous channel. So if you’re doing it poorly and you have inconsistent messaging across different channels, that’s your first mistake right there. Let’s just regroup focus your budget, your money, your efforts into making one channel the best channel you can. Once you have that, then we can continue. We can if you have the resources that we can continue changing channels. But if, like, a lot of small businesses have very limited resources, if you cannot do it and you cannot hire somebody to do it, then really, really focus. That’s what I would say to everybody. Just focus and do one thing very well

Chris Bruno:


and agree more. So anyone listening don’t spread a very thin budget across from lots of different places and channels, and especially if you’ve got very thin resources. And I say resources not in terms of money, but even in terms of time, it’s very important. You know, if you’re going to be stretched, you’re better off reducing all your efforts into one was focusing all your efforts into one or two platforms, as opposed to trying to do everything and then realising that you’re not gonna carry on

Naira Perez:


exactly so in social, if you have a product that it’s good for Facebook and Instagram, that’s that’s a place where you almost have to decide because Facebook is completely different from instagram, the followers, that behaviour so understanding those two channels is very important. So getting a little bit technical if you’re sitting and add Facebook will always say, Well, we recommend you just go in every form in every channel and see what happens on. So you know, it’s that is, their automatic set up is like just spread the message. And in reality, that is actually not a good strategy. It’s a good strategy if you have a lot of money and you just wanna try this by getting to the wall. The seafood steaks, right? Did you know how people just try their past and see if it’s done? And if it sticks in the wall, that is it. I don’t know if that’s something everybody does our, but you cannot do that right. Unless you have a lot of money, you have to be very focused. Facebook audiences are my shoulder. They normally have more money to spare in in purchases that are not essentials, and also they don’t mind getting off platform as much as instagrammers Instagrammers want to stay in platform. They like to interact with us with ads, but maybe not take the next step into getting into a landing page and filling out a form or whatever. So you have to consider that your creative needs to be different, because if you go into storeys, then there’s one picture or one video. There’s no text added to the picture that you can leverage. So your picture has to tell the storey. So the old of considerations are something that you have to take into account whenever you’re planning your social media in Facebook or Instagram. They’re actually completely different channels, Um, and then for me to be linked to him has, it’s a building so fast it has many four months right now. So just be careful on how you plan those formats and what their return on investment is because Lincoln it’s a very expensive channel to get in. But the audience is so qualified that with the proper nurturing plan, it actually pays off. But because it’s such an expensive channel to begin with, you really have to plan it again, going back to planning, implanting that response off. What happens if somebody that’s like what I’m saying? Just go back to that conversation being part of it,

Chris Bruno:


I think that’s a great piece of advice. And I think that’s the biggest thing there again. You know, the plan, the strategy, what you’re trying to achieve. And also I had a conversation. I think it was last week on DH somebody very much sort of banging the drum of, you know, if you think positive and you, you know, you pan for the best and everything else and I agreed with everything they said, except for the fact that I said I tried my best to be as positive as I can be. I’m constantly looking for new opportunities, not just for me, for my clients there from ways that from things, different products doesn’t matter anything that I can do to help people. But at the same time, I also plan for the worst case on DH. It sounds silly, but even in these sort of things, plan what your response will be If you know, you’ve had negative feedback in the past. What sort of feedback did you have planned? Some responses. How you going to take this? How you going to respond to this? You know what sort of a voice is your brand gonna take? You know, the one thing that you must never do is start getting angry and start shouting back up people in caps, locks when you’re replying to any feedback. But, you know, understanding whether or not you’re gonna be a bit fun or you’re gonna be joking with it. Are you going to be, you know, very formal, Very corporate, depending on what sort of brand tone of voice you have. But actually, having some of these things set up in before you actually start in your plan is a huge asset to have when it actually then happens because you’re not then panicking. You’re not reacting on this spot doing something silly. You can go back to your original plan to say This is how we agreed that we would respond to this sort of negative comments.

Naira Perez:


Yeah. No, absolutely. I agree with you 100% under

Chris Bruno:


20%. 120. I’ve never had 120 years. That’s that’s a win for me. I’m taking it. Okay, So in terms ofthe, we’re talking about small businesses with looking at small to midsize businesses. Really? What would you say are the best channels on DH? Why or for who in terms of that. So I know that’s a hard one, and I get the whole B to B B to C, and I think the audience has heard this quite a few times. Obviously, be to be much better, focus on length in, but in terms of the platforms and especially when you are starting out or you’ve got very limited resources and budgets, what sort of what would be your recommendations in terms of a platform choice on DH? Why?

Naira Perez:


So the first thing that I would actually look at is what they offer they have, what over they have. So depending on the offer and the and the intention behind the audience query, then that’s That’s what we’re going to look at first and I go. I say that because Google ads or being ads or any search engine marketing related, it’s based on intention. So that’s where people are actually looking for. Let’s say snow tyres. Do you don’t know who is looking for us? No tyres. You don’t know why. Why? You just know that they type that in. So there is an intention there so that that channel is very good for making conversions. So it’s not so much about brand awareness. Audiences air there for one reason when recent, only that is to get information about snow tyres. So if you have a good offer that is that coupon or a very specific checklist, whether it’s B to C or B to B. If you have a good actionable offer, then actually, I will go with the search engine marketing and I will go with the Google ads on the things Um, now, if you have ah, brand awareness as campaign, if you want to spread the word if you have ah, longer customer journey, where an offer right now is not to convert is just to start the conversation than social paid. Media is a very good place to start because you know who you’re talking to. You do not know if it’s the right time for snow tyres or not. But you know you’re talking to people that have a car that live near a mountain that maybe leave in places where there is high snow. Ah, you know. So that is something that you know. It may be the summer, and they don’t need snow tyres. But if you’re starting the conversation about snow tyres. Now with the right people, whenever it comes the time to be to get those snow tyres, they’re gonna come to you because they already have a family area d. With your rent, they already know you, so they will come back. But see, in one case, it was snow tyres. Now in Google ads in paid media, it was snow tyres. Maybe in the future, let’s talk about it. So I actually look at the at the offer and the kind off product in life cycle that the audience has to go through before I even look whether there is me to be your b to see this talk about you first and their needs off the audience. And then we can talk about the channels.

Chris Bruno:


I like it and the S I’ve got to ask you this as well, because I’ve had this question on DH. I’ve had this said to me in agency meetings with clients when people start talking about the r o I on wanting to find those quick wins Now, this is something that I never enjoy this part, the conversation, because it involved far too much education on the basis ofthe, I don’t know what else you’ve read online in terms of, you know, fight by this funnel. And I guarantee you’ll make millions whilst you sleep. But again, you know, when it comes to the r a y And when it comes to understanding the investment and the timeframes, how is that something that you help people to understand so that they get the fact that this is a journey? You know, we’re all learning together. We’re tryingto optimised to make things better. How do you really kind of explain that, too?

Naira Perez:


Yeah. So, first of all, I tried to put myself in their shoes and see Okay, what do they need? What does the sky and neat right now if they’re hurting for leads, If they’re hurting for sales, then the conversation is different because thes climb, maybe desperate. Then if there good, they have resources. And they’re good about planning. And they have the time about time to actually design that journey. So they’re different kinds of clients for the clients that need sales right now that need the leads. Right now, we we actually talk about the low hanging fruit we analyse where the low hanging fruit iss and then take them there and say, OK, this is a low hanging fruit. That means that this is gonna dry up and we need to have a long term plan. But the’s low hanging fruit thes people that they’re very easy to convert. This will fuel you and help you to plan the next that the future, right? So these are Oh, I is not permanent. It’s it’s a bandit And then you have to start looking at Well, let’s look at your your your life cycle from lead to sail. Like, how long does it take in looking back at other, maybe things that they have done what has worked where has not so it’s not a simple answer off. Aah! You know, like you said by these funnel, And then we will make you millions while your sleep. But just addressing their needs because for the other clients, I wantto have time that can be really, really methodical about designing this customer journey. Obviously, we can talk about lifetime value right away and just say, Hey, it’s gonna cost you more as an example B to B is, you know, normally the longest life cycle. Um, so we’re gonna be best now, But whenever these speed leads convert, they’re gonna convert a much higher right. And we do our backwards, we call it backwards, Paid media calculations where we started with Okay, your product is, you know, $60,000. So let’s start going backwards. Like how many leads came from thes channel. How many actually converted in the website? How many did clean how many? And then we go back and show the math behind these process showing them there is a science. There is a process that has to happen and that any time we can change the strategy and change the the things that we’re focusing on, But we do have to have these plans. So, as I said, going back, if the client need cells right now, we need to get them to gather that low hanging fruit so they can listen for the long term plan. If the client has a long term plan or is looking for a long term plan is much easier to explain that our ally

Chris Bruno:


and that’s an awesome way of explaining it and understanding the metrics of the business is so important. And I’m still shocked when I hear freelancers or agencies that are working with people. And I’ve never asked those questions. You know, what is the value of the sale? What is the sales cycle? How long is it on DH then asking, You know, Well, how did you get your last few leads? And where did those leads come from? How did you convert them? How many people did you have to send to a landing page or a product? Page two, then convert. Those are the numbers that really kind of indicate what the key things are. You know, we talked to company sometimes that haven’t really taken the time to look at the lifetime value of their clients on average, or they don’t really know what the cost per acquisition is, no matter what the what the medium or the pay channels are that they’re using. And I think that’s always kind of a scary thing, But But I mean, that’s fantastic. Thank you very much for helping us tow kind of break that down. I’m going to finish up with one question, which is just pure curiosity on my part, but what’s your favourite social channel. And why?

Naira Perez:


Who? I, um I actually really, really on enjoying Instagram. Ah, we have many channels on. We experiment with some kneeler channels as well, but so far Instagram is delivering very good results. The CPM that cost per 1000 impressions are much lower than on Facebook. The audience he’s engaging and interacting And there’s so many fun formats that you, Khun do so many different things with the same ad. So that’s why I’m enjoying it. But, um to be honest with you, I do love what I do. And I love every channel and even their challenges, even even the challenges that come with each channel. I enjoy them, but yeah, I’m suing your questions simply instagram I’m having a blast

Chris Bruno:


on. Is that true for you personally as well as you The marketer

Naira Perez:


thing, I Whenever you have a small business, I don’t know if this happens to you craze. But whenever you have a small business, you, yourself and your company are one almost e s o. Yeah, Sometimes I have a hard time differentiating myself from my company. I’m like, wait a minute. So I tried to Yeah, I’ll try to obviously be professional and be always very conscious off my client’s needs, but the same that I tell my clients to do with their audience. We tried to do with ours. So, as you can see, if you we say here in the United States, you need to eat your own dog food to know how it tastes. So that’s that is what we tried to do.

Chris Bruno:


So I’ve got to ask you, because that thing has happened to me a few times over the last 12 years. But have you ever posted thinking you were on your personal channel? But you are actually on the business Channel?

Naira Perez:


Ah ah ah yes, happens in Lincoln. So it’s not a huge thing I’ve seen Twitter tutor. I think people tend to do that mistake and treat her more than that. Anything, and those are more dangerous. But yeah, my personal mai. It is linked in my personal and my my business. They yes, sometimes they get I mean, nobody is the same message, so it’s OK, but yes, he’s well, friend because we have business manager and is different. But you can act, you know you’re in your in your business account But yeah,

Chris Bruno:


I can remember the days before the pages out for the business manager app on inside of Facebook and literally posting, thinking that I posted it myself. And somebody sort of messaging me after is going Why? Why? Why is your company posting about drinks and whatever else? And I was like that? Wow. Okay, so it’s getting better, thankfully. So we do it a lot less now. Thank you so much for coming on for sharing with everyone. I think that’s been absolutely fantastic. Where can people find you online?

Naira Perez:


Well, you can find me in social channels like linked in and ah, in Facebook, but also on my website Springhill digital dot com. We actually have, ah block and we publish articles. And if you have any questions at all, just right as an email, it’s info at Springhill digital dot com. And actually that goes to me directly. So I will answer any questions that your audience or you may have.

Chris Bruno:


Fantastic. I love it. Thank you again on DH. Well, speak too soon.

Naira Perez:


Thank you so much. I had a blast

Chris Bruno  47:51  

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