Today’s episode is all about how Bailey Proulx has helped his clients sell $100 million in high ticket sales.
In this episode, Travis and Bailey talk about:
- The importance of having a gut feeling in business
- What is Cost per Action (CPA)? and what is CTR?
- What do you focus on after the landing page?
- And what’s the sweet spot for testimonials?
We’d love to help our listeners with some free reviews and advice, so feel free to reach out to us, you’ll find all the social media links down at the bottom of the description.
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Full Episode Transcript
Bailey Proulx 0:01
Whenever someone says gut feeling instantly now go back to the drawing table. You need to come up with some piece of data or at least an expected result. Not just I want to create this to create this is like, no, that’s how you progress anything in business.
Chris Bruno 0:12
Welcome to the all about digital marketing podcast, the show that dives into the best strategies, tactics and tools for entrepreneurs and marketers looking to exponentially increase their results online.
Travis Ketchum 0:27
Hey, everyone, welcome back to all about digital marketing. This is Travis Ketchum. Today we have Bailey Prue. How’s it going, Bailey?
Bailey Proulx 0:32
Good. How you doing? Travis?
Travis Ketchum 0:34
I’m doing great. You know you sounds like used to be a POW boy. What I hear you on Friday night on Arizona.
Bailey Proulx 0:39
I am Yes, I did grow up up there. And then I realised what the sun was like. So I moved out to Las Vegas now Arizona now. Yeah, now there’s sun all the time. Except for here. It’s kind of weird. Because in Arizona in the summer, we do have rain every single day. I don’t think anyone knows that is early afternoon. Yeah, you know, it comes in and it rains really hard, like, like more than Washington hard for like a half an hour. And then it’s gone. And just all the time. This happens every single day, this whole last couple of weeks, which is nice. You know, I think we need some some water out here.
Travis Ketchum 1:08
For sure. I actually used to live in New Mexico as a kid. And then in high school, I went on an 85 mile hike in northern New Mexico. And you can set your watch by the 1pm rains.
Bailey Proulx 1:18
Oh, yeah. Yeah, it’s pretty similar that or at nighttime, I’ll wake up and I just hear, like, a lot of rain smashed against my place. So yeah, it’s a little bit hit and miss, but it definitely has its rainstorms. That is for sure.
Travis Ketchum 1:31
Awesome. Awesome. Well, good for you. So you know, we have you on here today because we’d love to talk about digital marketing and businesses. And you know, can you give us a little bit of a kind of a quick background about what your business is? And then we can dive into an area bank should be of top importance for every entrepreneur? Because this is one thing that everyone should know, but almost nobody actually knows.
Bailey Proulx 1:51
Yeah, yeah. So my background came out with actually moving out to Vegas to help out gentleman named Calico and I, and I was basically his was based, like, first employees, he had a salesperson on board. And we basically helped grow that company from zero to 60 million and about four years. So in that process, we were a info product business, and we hired all the best agencies, none of them made us any money. And so at that time, I went out to an event in Barcelona, talking about very, very high end media buying things for E comm and lead generation, I realised that nobody in the info space was doing this type of media buying because the margins were so good. Compared to these other types of niches, they had really high volume, really low margins and things they had a test, where were just, they just had they had to write compared to digital marketing. They go Yeah, five to one, I don’t need to go and test these things. So I’ve taken over the marketing and house, scaled back company, as I said, and then branched off and started the agency because we knew there was a need inside the market. Because again, we hired all the best agencies and a lot of them lacked in different areas. So so the agency about two, two and a half years ago now, specialising in high tickets, masterminds, or webinars via sells, basically getting High Ticket info things, sometimes we do book funnels on the front end and events. Yeah, that’d be work with some of the top people here in the digital marketing space and generated over 90 or $100 million revenue now generated in the last few years. And yeah, that’s kind of the short story about how we got into digital marketing and what we specialise in here.
Travis Ketchum 3:26
Awesome, I have an idea of what my definition of high ticket is. But what is your definition of high ticket and sort of white what is a dream funnel look like for a client that you want to work with?
Bailey Proulx 3:35
Yeah, Dream funnel definitely is VSL Video Sales Letter to both call, both call average costs, you know, 200 to $400, mentoring on the niche. Typically, our most successful clients have a 6000 to $10,000 product, and then a 20 to $30,000 product on the back end of that. So and then a down sell to like a course. So for example, they on the phone, they’re trying to usually sell them on the seventh of the six to six to 10k product, they can’t sell that they down sell to just of course. So typically, the mid ticket there, which is six to 10,000 is the course plus coaching plus webinars plus more hands on approach. And then the more high ticket stuff is once you get to a certain point in revenue. Now suddenly you don’t care as much about media buying per se or the funnel, you care more about KPIs and hiring operations and whatever the funnel, whatever the business is, the funnel is made for, there’s just that next level is once you pass, you know, 50 100 km month, the whole problems, the whole level problems completely changes. And then they have more of like the hands on approach past that point. Sometimes it’s more of an event. Sometimes it’s still weekly calls sometimes the mixture of both. That’s usually our sweet spot because we have a lot of custom things we can do for a book call to make sure we’re getting the best high quality both call possible, and making sure that we’re using data from the sales team to optimise our front end. And that’s typically our best margins there. Sometimes we’ll do like webinars to like $100 products that have upsells on the back Can to all the problem with that is you have to be really good at webinars, which is not everybody, compared to VSL, the book call, there’s lots of room to make up for a lack of salesmanship to the VSL. Because once they get in the phone call, it’s like the salesperson can really pick it up from there, can you low ticket front end, you have to get them to purchase in order for them to get on the phone, which makes it a little more difficult. But if you’re good at that, it’s a it’s a good spot to be because you have lots of buyers, which is nice.
Travis Ketchum 5:25
Gotcha. And so just because I’m a marketing nerd, what is kind of a typical price point for the course down? So usually 2k 2k All right, yeah, yeah. But I would have guessed, you know, one to two care. So right in there. Awesome.
Bailey Proulx 5:38
I think like a couple years ago was one day. And then now there’s this whole value piece that goes behind one day, and everyone pretty much moved to 2k at this point.
Travis Ketchum 5:47
Gotcha. Interesting. Interesting. Cool. So anyone out there who’s like, Man, I, you know, do client work, whatever I need to start filling in those price points. That’s the biggest thing I usually take away from your argument Funnels is, you know, people usually don’t have enough of a back end or don’t have enough of a lead up on a front end or whatever. So
Bailey Proulx 6:02
well, yeah, I think a lot of people do their their pricing structure based off where they’re currently at not thinking about the people, they’re gonna have to hire the sales team, the marketing. And so they start their stuff off, and maybe 497, or even sometimes 1000. And don’t have a back end, because I think that’s all they’re worth. But realistically, in the long run, you have to think about all the expenses you’re going to take on. And that’s really where you have to start adding to the make more value. And obviously, make sure you charge enough for that point. Because as you start to up prices, it doesn’t look as good as just over delivering in the beginning. And just having that price set at the right at the right point.
Travis Ketchum 6:35
Gotcha. Gotcha. Cool. So I mean, you know, when you think about acquisition, you talked about having to have great salesmanship or you know, it’s having certain things dialled in or, or, you know, optimising that kind of leads us to KPIs right, like key performance indicators. And, you know, even if someone’s a roughly a mature fan of entrepreneurship and watches, let’s say Shark Tank, right, the one thing that they always drive in is, what are the numbers, right? And I’m always amazed, you know, about how many entrepreneurs you talk to? And a lot of us don’t know our numbers, at least not the way that you would expect. So is that kind of a, a main thing you’d like to focus on? When you start to decide about what to optimise and set benchmarks or how does that work from your perspective?
Bailey Proulx 7:19
Yeah. So before I got into the HPC, space, I thought that everybody had this piece out there. And I was fortunate enough to work with gallon, see these different moving pieces inside the business. So most media buyers, people that actually by the media agencies come in and they go, Hey, I know that I gotta get you this CPA and this lead. But in the back end, there’s so many different variables to that come into play, you have the refund rate calls, taken quality calls for CPA, what’s your average DPL. For the sales teams, there’s so many different variables there that actually affect the business. So the very first thing we do when they come into the business is ask for their KPI sheet, they almost have to always have this. And if they don’t, then they start pulling this for us. So KPIs include many different variables here, and not just we’re graded on the front end, but also the back end. So we have custom dashboards, and custom like KPI reporting, Excel docs that are pretty intense to help with these things, right. So certain things we’re looking for. I’ll give you an example of a go to a book called finance. Since we just talked about doing a VSL to both call, important KPIs. I’ll start from the top of funnel down. Obviously, CTR, CTR is tell us a huge story.
Travis Ketchum 8:27
So for you to have yourself, I just want to enter one moment. So we have varying levels of of education and understanding. So perfect CPA is cost per action CTRs click through rates, I can sit here and die with you like this all day, I just want to make sure that if anyone’s scratching their head, like what the heck is that mean? Let’s just give him a little extra clarity for those that are a little earlier in the process. Okay, cool.
Bailey Proulx 8:49
Yeah. So CPA cost per acquisition or cost per action Merrigan on how you look at it CTRs. So on Facebook, or any media buying platform, you have your click through rates, all and you have your click through rate, link, click so like a CTR all. So click through rate all is basically anyone that engaged with your ad at all. So they scroll down and they clicked like, comment, share, see more, they played your video to make it pop up, they clicked on your image, they literally clicked anywhere in that ad space that you have, then you have the click through rate link. And that is when they actually click the link on your ad or they click the button on your ad. So either one of those counts as the CTR link click. So that’s one of the first pieces of data that we look at. So this actually tells us a story here. So based off of what type of creative, they’re running, we have some baseline things that we’re looking for. So for example, we want to make sure that our CTR off is usually before video 3% and image 4%. I mean 4% of people that came through inside are actually engaging. If not what I see people do is they jump to then fixing the whole ad and they go and change the hook. They change the hook which is important to do there but they change the body copy and they change Like the whole piece of copy, but that’s not the problem. The problem is, no one’s even consuming the content at all. So if you edit everything below the scene more, they’re not getting below to see more on Facebook. So if you go to Facebook ad doesn’t show the whole ad, you actually have to click See more, right. So there’s two different things you have to focus on there, which is the first KPI we look at is CTR all is that what we need it to be at, if not, the very first things we’re testing is the hook of the ad in the first five to 10 seconds, everything above the Seymour inside the copy the button copy everything that the person sees, when they scroll down to see your ad. Forget that to that three to 4%. Then we move over to the CTR link click. So again, this is people actually clicked on a link inside of your ad. So what we’re looking for here is like a two to one ratio. So out of half the people that engage with your ad and click to in general, half of them actually click on the link or click the button. This shows us that there is a connection between the hook that you set the bridge into the content and then the contents actually selling. So let’s say you’re at a 4% CTR, or 1% CTR link, click means 25% of people that engage with your ad actually clicked. Which means that’s that’s pretty low. So we don’t need to necessarily focus on the hook, which is the first part of the of the copy. We don’t need to necessarily focus on the hook of the video. What do you focus on what’s after that point? So again, I see a lot of people go and create a whole new pieces a copy. But that’s not what you have to do, you have to go and edit that piece of the copy that you strictly needed based off what the data is telling you. So let’s say those are both that two to one ratio on our CTRs are making sense, we move over to the conversion rate on the landing page. Right? So what is the conversion rate on the landing page? Does that percentage make sense, this thing fluctuates is why we have to track it. So I’ll kind of give you all the KPIs we look at here and then reverse engineer them because all of them tell a story. So you have your your lead cost, obviously, you have your landing page conversion rate, you have your VSL video sales letter. So if you ever go to like after you opt in to something, you have a actual video that pushes up their purchase, or to book a call, give the conversion rate from the people that land on that page, to actually booking the call, or actually clicking on the books call. And the people that actually click on the books call, it’s actually booking a call. And there’s some other KPIs after that we can get into. So again, a few pieces of stories here, we actually add delayed scripts, you can do this through active campaign or Infusionsoft or anything, but you can actually fire up the script when someone sees the offer. Right. So let’s say that we know that our landing page, that part doesn’t matter too much, just make sure you’re above 10 15%. The rest is what really matters here. So let’s say you have 100 people that land on your VSL page, and 20% of them get to your actual pitch. This is why it’s important to have the delayed script there. You know that? Yes, your VSL might not be working properly. But you also know that they’re not even getting to the pitch. So why go and change the offer? Not even getting to the offer? Right? So then, you know, okay, well, the piece of content I’m doing in the beginning isn’t hooking them. What is the data telling me? What’s the drop off point, you can use plugins for Vimeo and Wistia to see where their drop off point is something I said, my D qualifying people too much. So it just tells you what part of the funnel do you have to focus on? So that typically we like to see around 50%? It’s kind of a rough, rough number there.
Travis Ketchum 13:18
Do you ever use the tool validox?
Bailey Proulx 13:21
Some of our clients do use Videx. That’s a is that a plugin for Vimeo, right?
Travis Ketchum 13:25
No, it’s actually its own video player. It’s like a competitor to Vimeo and Wistia. And that kind of stuff that gives you a lot of this data and even lets you, you know, drop in buttons at certain points and the whole deal.
Bailey Proulx 13:36
Oh, I don’t think any of our clients use that. At least I have. I have not heard that name come up in a few years. That’s why I found it.
Travis Ketchum 13:42
Literally, video analytics is how it got its name. So the lyrics, I was just curious. You’re saying I’m like, you know, could you consolidate some of those tools? Anyway, I just thought it would come to mind since that’s your world. And but I’d ask.
Bailey Proulx 13:52
Yeah, I mean, you definitely could I think a lot of people use Wistia for that reason. But Wistia also is like arm and a leg monitoring on how much traffic you’re sending. So
Travis Ketchum 14:02
having been Alerts is a lot more affordable.
Bailey Proulx 14:04
Cool. I did not know that. So I’m gonna actually note that down and go and research that after Awesome, awesome, awesome. So there’s that there’s like the, the saw offer compared to how many people clicked on looking call, again, another big piece here. So what a lot of people they’ll track is, how many leads that I get and how many votes calls that I get. But again, there’s so many things in between there that are super important to know, they actually tell you what you need to fix or what we can optimise for. So then, for example, you see, out of the 50 people that saw your offer to people click to book a call, obviously now there’s issue with your actual offer there. So I would then purely just focus on you and a couple split tests on some different offers or pitches, things of that nature. Another big drop off is when people get to the actual booking page. Let’s say you have 50 people entering the booking page or one person books, right that’s a huge drop off. That means you’re asking for probably too much information on the booking page and might not load properly answered. devices, you have to get things like Browser Stack to make sure it loads right? on all devices, it could be broken. One other big test to you is you have to book more than five days out, the conversion rate drops, substantially. We just actually just had a client we did this with, and we’re at about $125 cost per call, it brought it up to 500. And then we changed it back down and brought it back down to 125. Again, wow, it was crazy. So it has a huge, huge difference there. So again, it just tells us these variables, we need to assess there. And obviously, you have the cost reports call. So again, there’s the story, right, the story all the way across. It’s not just how many leads, I get how many books calls, because then you change way too many variables at once. But let the KPIs do that for you. Then there’s the next phase right? Then there’s Okay, how many people here whose quality and who’s not quality? Right? Because not all both calls are created equally? So what was the cost per quality call taken? What is the cost for any call? Taken? Right? What is the average? They call it? DPL? I remember exactly what stands for salespeople called DPO. Basically, like, what is the average value for both call? What is that for each person? What is the overall CP and the back end? And those are all important numbers to know. So most people don’t have all those pieces set up. And then from there, then one of the biggest things we hear is all right, if we’re making money, we want to scale this thing to, you know, 50 grand a day and
Travis Ketchum 16:19
to the moon, right?
Bailey Proulx 16:21
Everybody says that, and I can’t tell you one client that hasn’t come in and said that. The problem is with that though, is we Okay, cool. Well, how do you guys expect to get there? Well, we’re just gonna double budget, there’s just like, No, it’s not necessary, just doubling budget, we have to reverse engineer what’s currently going on to understand what we have to start spending to get to those goals, right. So we have a client right now that comes to us and says that he wants seven new sales a day. And so for us, we Okay, so seven new sales a day means that when somebody sells to them, they actually have a higher number. So they go, I want to make 1.5 million a month. In order to make that, let’s get this many people on our back end upgrade. Or to get that I have to have this many people buy this upsell, in order to get that I have to have this many people purchase the details as you hit this purchase goal. We’re good. And then we go okay, in order to hit this purchase goal, we have to have this many people initiate checkout to have this many people see the offer, which means we have to have this many people register this many people click on the PDF, or to download the PDF. There’s many people click, if we’re going to cost per click as this price, how much do we have to spend a day. And that’s how we reverse engineer how to actually get them to their KPI goals, rather than just, you know, let’s just throw money at it and see what happens. And there’s variables as you scale some of those things change and smoke in order to get to 70 sales, what do I have to change to get them to that point. And those are the important things to set up there. And we can get into like how we media buy if you want based off of those KPIs, because all those are important. But there’s
Travis Ketchum 17:45
one thing I think most people that are early stage, they have a question here, because I think it’s a common thing. It’s like, right, if I double my ad spend, I’ll double my results, right? And I found personally that when I crank up ad spend, it fades, right? Yeah, the cost per action and the cost per lead go up. And every time I double, I see another softening and drop and the cost goes up per lead. Is that kind of consistent with what you find with your clients. So
Bailey Proulx 18:14
yes, and no, I think we have a very unique way media mine where we can actually mitigate that a lot. We have different ways of doing spend to conversion ratios and such to hedge yourself against that. So in most cases, I will say yes, unless you have a really strong media buying team, then no. So for example, we had a client that went from $5,000 a day and brought them up to $125,000 a day and spent and went from $6 per lead to eight. Like that’s not that’s not a huge jump. Compared to you know, typically you’ll see a bigger jump that or, for example, you can go to 5k to 15k and not see a huge jump. But I think it’s this this thing that people think that’s just a normal thing. So they don’t try to beat it and they go, Oh, this is normal, when realistically there is ways to actually change that piece. Right? You if you look at the KPIs based off we just talked about as you spend more you get data back faster, and you can actually optimise faster. So yes, it will spike in the beginning. But that doesn’t mean this is where info marketing, we get lazy because we go yeah, we’re still making money. So we don’t need to
Travis Ketchum 19:18
adjust. When you have 90% margins that makes you lazy for sure.
Bailey Proulx 19:21
Yeah, exactly. So they don’t like take the extra step to look at it. So you can go yes, I’m going to scale and I’m just gonna go from, I don’t know, your audience is out, say 200 to 400 a day. And yes, you’re gonna see a spike in the beginning initially, but it’s like what are you doing there that for when you do spike, okay, this all comes down to KPIs. So when your cost does spike, what exactly spikes right? It’s something changed somewhere in the funnel. So I’d be having all drawn out on a KPI sheet. So was it your CPM meaning cost per 1000 people reached the dock go up. Did your conversion rates drop? Did like somewhere our conversion rate dropped right either at a CPM or your conversion? Ready to drop? So what? What dropped? And then how do we, how do we combat that? Right? So if we scaled, our CPM goes up, okay, well, that means for every single person that sees the ad, that cost goes up. So in order to combat that, we know that we have to have more engaging time content to have that CPM come back down. Right, we have to get basically more CTR. And Facebook says it does not directly correlate, but it definitely does, right. More people engage with your ad is going to be cheaper because we have a better user experience. Right? Or is it when they get to your page, your conversion rate drops? Okay, well, if my conversion rate drops, either I can, in Facebook, you do conversion ad, you can optimise deeper in the funnel to get a more quality person, or you know, that drop. So let’s go and now we need to test more landing pages, right? Or, you know, the cost for books call drops why? And so just identifying what KPI actually cause that change can then help you go back and fix it and then reduce the cost again. So yes, it does like but that does not mean that you just have to accept that just figure out exactly what what broke. And you can you can fix it from there.
Travis Ketchum 21:02
Well, it’s good to know, you know, because I’m amazing at getting email to the inbox. But my, my chops for advertising are not, not at a plus levels. They I have spent quite a bit on advertising back in the day for people but you know, it’s been quite a while on the game has changed. So
Bailey Proulx 21:18
yeah, especially in the in the Facebook world game, it’s changed a lot. And attribution is, is a necessity here. So we spend a lot of time on custom attribution models.
Travis Ketchum 21:28
Yeah, I guess that’s a good question. So you know, with iOS 14, that five, everyone kind of freaked out, right, because of Apple changing things. So, you know, I understand philosophically why, you know, knowing your key performance indicators, and where everything is at every stage is amazing. But that’s harder than ever before today, is it not? I mean, how do you overcome that as an agency?
Bailey Proulx 21:50
As far as like what Apple did? And like how they spiked prices?
Travis Ketchum 21:55
Sure, yeah. We want to simplify it. Yeah, more or less. Okay.
Bailey Proulx 21:58
So I don’t want to get too techie here. But basically, what Apple did was it, it stopped, the ability to do third party tracking, not stopped. But if you turn off that the button, it stops any third party. So basically, what happens is Facebook pixel is a third party pixel, because it has Facebook, on the pixel, the pixel is the piece of code that you basically copy and paste on your website. So Facebook can see what happens off of Facebook. So basically, Apple stopped the ability for some people to stop that information coming back to Facebook. So we have to do is you have to figure out okay, well, that was the issue, how do you fix that issue, there’s a few different ways you can fix that issue. The very simple way is through Hieros. Hieros is, but there’s other software’s too, like Hieros, but we like Hieros, for a couple reasons here. So on the Hieros pixel, you can probably go into irises Hieros is basically like a third party tracking software, that gives you a bunch of data that Facebook can’t give you and helps you on the data. So what a lot of people even don’t know, that do use Hieros is you can actually integrate your domain into the Hieros pixel. And you can make that Hieros pixel into a first party pixel. So Apple didn’t stop first party tracking meaning first parties, you own the data, it’s you, which means it’s like your website that collects the data in third party is Facebook’s, you know, code being on on your page. So if you can make that code and you own the data, now, you can actually pass that data back to Facebook, because you own the data. So iros has like the first party, you can integrate your domain into it, and you can actually put that pixel on your page. Now it’s first party that helps I was also has the ability to then take what’s called bases, server side tracking, so servers can pick up more data than Facebook can in some situations. So for example, Hieros also gives you the person’s name, email, phone number, IP address, gives you lots of different things there. And if Facebook’s not getting that data, then hairos, you can actually set it up to pass that data back to Facebook. And also use those parameters to help with matching. So basically, there’s like a match score. So let’s say your match score is 90%. That means that out of 100 people made it to your page, we’ve gotten 90% attribution there. So every piece of data you give back to them more also helps increase that. So if I pass back IP address and Facebook, click ID and their name, email, and phone number, the the chance of me getting that data back to Facebook and getting attribution into Facebook is a lot higher. So different different things like that. Another cool thing about Hieros to us, if anyone here that takes any calls at all, and they run traffic. What’s really cool about Hieros or other software’s is to but give me like Hieros is you can say you get a 10 book falls, you can then take those emails, you can figure out who of them is quality and who’s not quality first, right? So yeah, five quality five non quality. You can plug that information into Hieros and we’ll show you exactly what campaign ad set and ad The person came from. So now you can start optimising based off of the quality of traffic, not just the traffic that you’re getting. Right. So that’s what’s super important. Because Facebook, you can’t go into Facebook and say, All right, Joe Schmo, firstname.lastname@example.org. You know, where did he come from? You don’t know he came from one of the things that you’re running, right? This is why you have to test out you have to have that. So when you go and test out intent versus curiosity, you’ll see a big swing curiosity. Yeah, you’ll get cheaper cost per lead. But are they backing out on the back end? Or if you’re just being super upfront with what the offer is about the offer? But what exactly will learn on the on the VSL? And you’d be more upfront and more intent based on the marketing? Yeah, your costume would go up. But does the cost for quality call on the back end? Go down?
Travis Ketchum 25:41
If it closed at three times already, but it cost twice as much. It’s still worth it. Because Exactly. You’re making way more
Bailey Proulx 25:47
exactly same a 300%. Bumping close, but what 200% bump in costs. So you have 100% margin there and the green. Exactly exactly what it is. Yep,
Travis Ketchum 25:55
yep. Awesome. Yeah. So a friend of mine is Scott from Wicked reports, I believe does the same kind of thing is Hieros. But yeah, those kind of platforms are awesome.
Bailey Proulx 26:05
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. The only thing that that wicker reports makes a little more difficult on is it doesn’t integrate into Facebook, they have their own reason for that, because they say iros kind of cheat a little bit, which not they probably probably do. But yeah, both of them were great. Those two and sigmetrics. Also, I heard works well. Some of our clients use that. My Media Buyers handle those accounts for the most part. But those are like the three three top ones there.
Travis Ketchum 26:30
Gotcha. Yeah, I mean, that that makes a lot of sense. Because if I have a ad set or an ad, you know, within an ad campaign that’s just crushing on clothes, I would probably be tempted to turn everything else off.
Bailey Proulx 26:40
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. And so you only get so much that in Facebook, and the only piece to that Facebook moved to is a, it’s modelling. So if you ever go into your Facebook account has a small little to next dollar numbers, which means that these aren’t actually your numbers. These are just based off with all the data Facebook has. This is the model of how it thinks
Travis Ketchum 27:00
that it did things that thought it brought you two leads or whatever. Yeah,
Bailey Proulx 27:04
yeah, exactly. And so things like Hairston wicker reports, like they’ll show, you know, actually, this many people came from here. And they’ll tell you that because they pass over the information. And so UTM, you add, basically, it’s a snippet that goes after your URL that just passes information over. And then that’s stupid. It has the ad ID, the ad set ID and the campaign ID so can attribute it back to the exact source that it came from. So it does offer Facebook’s platform because Facebook can’t do that for you user privacy. But yeah, there’s other software’s can. So it’s getting creative.
Travis Ketchum 27:37
Yeah, I definitely noticed the model because we do a little bit of advertising here and there on some of our funnels. And, you know, I don’t have quite the level of tracking like hieroglyphic reports currently installed. But even I can compare, you know, pulling day ranges, how many leads came in, and it never, ever, ever matches? Now, what Facebook thinks Facebook sometimes is low, oftentimes, it’s high, they always think that their performance is better than it really is. Which is entertaining, like, what are your cost per lead? It’s like, if that was our actual leads. Sure, that’d be great.
Bailey Proulx 28:06
Yeah, yeah. It’s very interesting, too, because you can if you go and set this up through Google Analytics, because Facebook does this, too. But Google Analytics will tell you exactly how many people came from iOS versus Android. And you can see how they converted and such and like a good 80 90% of our traffic comes from iOS. So an Android is rolling this out to it’s not out yet. But Android is also rolling out that, that stopping of that? So that’s why I’m on Facebook, on Google. It’s not as much of a problem, though, because Google has a lot of first party things. Right? So YouTube, is owned by Google. Google has Google Chrome Analytics has, it has Google AdSense, it has so many different places that Google has the ability to turn that tracking into first party tracking, it’s not getting hit as bad with it, it is still getting hit with it a little bit. And there’s ways to fix that. But that’s why Facebook, I heard so bad because Facebook is facebook. Right? But Google is a behemoth. Right, again, all the different software’s it’s a those are on the site, his chances of those conversions picking up is higher, because that’s its first party, right? Like they own the thing that they’re on. So
Travis Ketchum 29:10
interesting, interesting. So, you know, if someone wants to get an offer to scale, right, because like you talked about always entrepreneur, you know, and marketing communities and I was like, oh, you know, cold traffic is like that’s the the Holy Grail, right? Like, yeah, to get control of cold traffic. And I find that most people would agree with that. But I’m very few actually seem to master it. What is your kind of advice for someone who’s in a position where they you know, they’ve dabbled with it? They haven’t gotten into work. They’re not even convinced it would work because they haven’t personally experienced it working, right? They, they they hear they read case studies, they follow people that make it work, but they don’t know what next steps to do. What would be your advice to someone in that situation?
Bailey Proulx 29:49
My advice always comes down to like, try to find a way to eliminate the most amount of variables at one time as possible. So this is why I think affiliate marketing In the beginning or using different types, not like going to Clickbank necessarily and finding offers but finding something that’s proven where you can utilise like something that you know works and either run traffic there to get traffic validates, and you know that, hey, this funnel works, this webinar works like all these things work with the hands changing as my traffic. So I do a lot of teaching and communities teaching people how to do that first and branch off and do it for their own companies. Or you do it for someone that’s a competitor inside the space that you know, is working, you don’t copy their stuff, but you just you know that what their offer is, you know what some of their hooks are, you understand conceptually what things work. And so you’re trying to eliminate as many variables as possible you go on launch because you’re you’re piggybacking off of something that has at least enough data to know that it works. The problem is what people will do. Or even you write it organically, if it works, organic is probably going to work paid as long as there’s some stipulations there. But as long as you know, the offer works is usually the biggest thing. Because if you go and you start running paid traffic to, let’s say, a book call funnel again, you don’t know if it’s your ad that’s lagging behind, you know, if it’s your landing page congruency, you don’t know if it’s your video, your know if it’s your post call page, you know if it’s your salespeople, so it’s like how do I try to eliminate as many those variables as possible and focus on what the easiest way to do that is to piggyback in the beginning, and then go off and tested for things. The biggest, the biggest thing is not knowing if everything else is going to work properly. And then I think that’s like one of the biggest pieces there and changing too much at one time at all times. You should only be changing one thing. So one thing on your ads, is it on your different tests? Do you just changing your image, you just changing your copy just changing your headline, and the funnel, just change your landing page, test that or just change the VSL. And make sure not testing too many variables at one time. That’s one of the biggest things. And that’s why I think that certain ways that eliminate as many of those variables as possible, the potential and not working is super important. Obviously reps is important to making sure you get out there and get reps even if five bucks a day is important. But those are usually my tips on on that side
Travis Ketchum 32:04
catcher. I mean, other than, you know, advice on that, what do you tell people that have like, oh, I ran Facebook ads and they don’t work? Right? What they really mean is they haven’t worked for me.
Bailey Proulx 32:14
Yeah, that’s exactly what they mean. So that whole KPI structure I broke down earlier, almost 95% of the time I see people say it doesn’t work is because your CTRs are too low. They’re getting you know, point 5% CTR, or point 2% CTR, link clicks and no one’s consuming the content, those consuming the content, they’re not going to get to the next page. So one of the biggest things that you could do is go and hire someone that specialises in the creative side and the copy. And the graphic side too many people try to do that in the beginning and they’re not master copywriters. So it’s like just go and pay someone 100 to three 500 bucks, whatever it is for them to get some copy variations for you. And then know that at least the copies and the in the creatives are going to be pretty decent, because that’s one of the biggest things that lags on that side. If that does work, and you aren’t getting enough traffic, then just follow those frameworks, I just told you to figure out where the drop off is. So what’s like an example of a funnel that some people in your audience might read?
Travis Ketchum 33:10
You know, I think there’s a lot of people that try to run, you know, like low ticket front end, usually, you know, like a book or you know, swipes or video course or something, you know, like sub $30 is fairly common. You know, there’s with hopefully with the back end, but
Bailey Proulx 33:27
yeah, yeah, yeah, so with those, it gets a little more tricky, because I’ll tell you how we do those funnels. And you might have to segment what I’m gonna say here, because there’s different levels of this. But the most successful book funnels we’ve seen as you’re not typically say your book is 20 bucks, right, you’re typically not going to get a CPN or 20 bucks, you probably be pretty lucky to get around 70 and 80. So one day, it’s important to have there is make sure you have some sort of liquidation strategy after they purchase that initial small ticket front end. So most people have between eight to a $900 total costs per, I guess upsells available, usually like two or three different upsells that could have average outside price.
Travis Ketchum 34:12
So someone bought absolutely everything in the funnel, they’d spent eight to $900.
Bailey Proulx 34:15
Yeah, so out of everything in their total, they bought all the upsells equal to that price. And then for like a $5 book, we can typically get that cost per value per person that purchases just the upsells up to about 100 bucks. So that really helps liquidate the cost there on the front end a lot. Except for that. I mean, that’s the number one thing you have to have in this day and age. It’s super important to have that. Another thing too is if you are optimising for purchase, don’t go too soon to optimising for purchase, make sure you optimise for what we call micro conversions first. So let’s say we’re running to a landing page that then they click the button to buy they go to the next page. Make sure that you would first optimise for like initiate checkout right which would be that first thing that because if you just go to purchase too fast The way the algorithm works, this is going to charge you a lot more to optimise for a purchase, but it doesn’t have information on who’s purchasing, it’s just going to go after random people trying to get them to purchase that purchase, but they just increase the cost so much more doesn’t doesn’t make sense. So I usually wait until you get like 100 Initiate checkouts, and you can start moving through the funnel more. And then on those low ticket front ends this because there is so many less variables, which is the blessing there, which is smart, that they’re doing something like that is almost 100% of the time, the biggest thing that’s gonna get you to swing is gonna be the copy and the creative, right? Like those should be almost the only things that you’re testing, as long as your conversion rate on the landing page is decent, I’d say that you’re somewhere around five 5%.
Travis Ketchum 35:45
So 5% of traffic that clicks from an ad to actually buying the front end product.
Bailey Proulx 35:49
Yeah, that’s pretty much the bare. If you’re going to mean low ticket, that’s pretty much like the bare bare minimum there. I mean, you could get that up higher, but for now at 5%, you’re probably gonna get a cost per click around two bucks, right? So was like about two or like comes with 520 $500, something like that either way, the CPA is still pretty high. They’re at 5%. Gotcha. So at least 5%. But that would be like the bare minimum as long as converting at least 5% Then Then yes, just focus almost purely on the creatives. But the test and the landing page, make sure you have Hotjar downloaded to use, you know where people are dropping off through different heat maps. If you guys don’t know Hotjar is its records people screen and they’ll give you heat maps based off of where the activity is. Animals every time you look at a hot jar, there’s almost always one section of the page that goes from like it gets it gets redder as like more traffic’s there and almost one spot where it goes completely blue, because there’s just nobody makes it past that point. It’s like a headline, or something of that set. One tip I can give you for those people to would be that. Testimonials have been killer on those on all of our hot jars. People almost go straight to the testimonials now. No one really even results pages anymore. They skip through the headlines to find the help their headlines that are relevant to them. They go to the testimonials and they figure out they want to click Like that’s what almost all our recording shows nowadays. No one’s sitting there and reading every single line and there it is. Go through the headlines, go to the testimonials and figure out if you want to push forward or not.
Travis Ketchum 37:15
Every potential question for me what what kind of testimonials then do you find are hitting the hardest video testimonials written testimonials? How long candid testimonials versus a more professionally produced ones. I mean, there’s a lot that can go into a quote, testimonial and they can have a very different outcome. So what are you finding is the most attractive for most of your clients?
Bailey Proulx 37:35
It’s definitely a test a lot of people convert differently. So the very bare bones is like having somethings better than nothing. Usually a written out version is pretty well, it works pretty well. The problem with doing videos especially on like a longer form page is the amount of load it puts on your page is substantial. And when your page load speed increases, the amount of people that actually sit there and consume the content is a lot lower. Because Facebook and Google penalise you add the CPMs being cost per 1000 people reached for longer page load speeds. So for those, we’re typically doing a longer form like image of them. So they can see someone that font that looks like them. That’s how everybody goes to person and looks most like them or age wise or whatever. And then you just have like the quote here. So whatever thing that they said, usually they’ll pull it from either a message or a testimonial survey. Or they’ll actually do a video testimonial and just pull a clip of like the quote they want to use. They’re on pages past the first page, you need a little more aggressive and put videos if you want, but most of our clients use text, and it’s just like medium form. Maybe maybe 100 words. Maybe?
Travis Ketchum 38:40
Yeah. Okay. Well, it’s definitely good to know. Yeah, because I know testimonials are have been powerful for a very long time. But some people swear by all you gotta get your clients to, to you know, walk out their phone and record using the selfie cam and talk about how amazing you are. But it’s like I always felt like there was there was a little extra friction there for various reasons and your answers about page load speed and penalising on CPM makes a lot of sense.
Bailey Proulx 39:04
Yeah. Well, also it comes down to I mean, honestly, a lot of people aren’t that good on video. So
Travis Ketchum 39:09
stumble around, and you know, make mistakes and yeah, like, you know, it’s like a bathroom in the background.
Bailey Proulx 39:15
Yeah. And they like yeah, and they make it feel structured. They give us usually you’ll give them prompts. So I mean, I always give them a prompt like, Hey, do you want my I’ve gotten you good results so far, if you don’t mind, just like answering a few of these questions. And just record yourself that works too. And then they, you know, they just make it seem like I asked them to ask those questions like, Alright, first question is XYZ like, no, no, like, in your testimony, like you just covered these topics. If we helped you they’re not It’s not like, you know, go and say this, fake it. But we helped you in these three things. Can you just mention it? Because in order for us to help more people, like we helped you, you know, we want to be able to to make sure we have these things covered. Because at the end of the day, that’s how we typically like to structure when we ask people to hey, we’ve helped you get the result in order to help more people. We have to be able to use that content. So like framing things comes down to psychology, but like framing things in a way it’s going to help benefit them or to help the greater good to always worse more rather than just, hey, can you shoot testimonial?
Travis Ketchum 40:08
For sure? I mean, since you said the smells are so important to do you find it there’s like a certain number of testimonials are kind of tends to be the sweet spot, right? Because, you know, if it’s one or two might not be enough, but if it’s 430, that’s probably overkill, right? So what’s, what’s the sweet spot?
Bailey Proulx 40:25
It’s like three to six is usually always set in threes. So you have one row or two rows. I do have some clients that have on there. So we have like retargeting pages we send traffic to and they have a tonne on there. We haven’t tested opposite of that. I mean, it seems to work. But most of our funnels we run have been three, six, I can’t tell you we’ve done a test having more than three to six. But like everybody’s been running through six.
Travis Ketchum 40:49
So it was that three to six of the entire page or like a block of content, three block of content through your blog, your content through I mean,
Bailey Proulx 40:58
the one spot on the page, one spot on the page. Alright. Yeah. And I don’t know if this is meant to be the most of them are like 75% down through the page do Interesting. Interesting. Yeah, yeah. I haven’t tested it a B, and I’m always by the numbers, right? Maybe it works better moved up. But it seems like all of your clients have it. 70 to 75% down the page.
Travis Ketchum 41:16
That’s really interesting. Yeah, I mean, I’ve never thought that we’d end up talking about testimonials so much today. But you said it’s a hotspot and definitely an important piece. So that’s interesting. Any others kind of maybe page conversion tips? I feel like, you know what, a lot of people say, hey, if not working? I agree that it’s something with the traffic, whatever. Right? But, but if they can’t get past that initial landing page, is there any kind of other structural things that you’re finding that are working really well right now? Like, is checkout at the bottom? Is the checkout kind of column on the side? Maybe it floats with them? Like is there any kind of structural things like that people should consider when they’re designing that kind of like, first big conversion element in their funnel,
Bailey Proulx 41:54
I mean, here’s just some some normal things that some people do and don’t know, button colour, and always want to make sure use a button that that colours are used anywhere else on the page. So I see a lot of people make these fancy looking pages. And they have like a blue button. And a blue is also their background, they have blue and then text for the button doesn’t pop out at all. Another mistake I see too, is not telling people what to do. So just saying like, buy the book. Now, as far as the button says, rather than click here to buy the book now. It’s crazy, even testing us on ads to like you just putting a link compared to click this link to do XYZ. If you don’t tell them to do something, people just don’t do stuff. I know it’s like to us, it’s like, yes, obviously you click the button. But if you don’t tell them to they just don’t think about it. And so it does drop conversions. If you don’t have an actual call to action there.
Travis Ketchum 42:43
We find the same an email copy, too. It’s like you got to be really explicit about I want you to do this thing and sometimes even say, and then this is the experience you’re gonna have after that, like, I mean, you’re gonna make this decision or whatever, like, really just telling them exactly step by step what you want them to do. And they’re like, Okay, yeah, I guess I’ll do.
Bailey Proulx 43:00
Yeah, yeah. So to be clear on that piece, though, I would not do that on Facebook. But on YouTube, that is a good tactic as far as the future pacing. So we’ve noticed a drop in conversion rates, we do go on the next page, you want to do this. And then you know, then do XYZ after it’s part of this direct response thing, like tell them to do one thing, it probably works well on email. On Facebook, it definitely interesting as no does not work on YouTube, though, it actually does work pretty well. Because as you’re doing your call to action, you can do a like screen recording of you literally going to the page and clicking the button and putting in your information. I still want it future paste them too far. But that does work pretty well on YouTube. See some other things here for Facebook, don’t overcomplicate the page, the simplest pages longer form sales pages have always worked best. Partially from page loads be partially just from like just simplicity sake. Don’t ever do dark background on white texts. I saw some clients bring funnels to us with that. And that’s like a known direct response thing. Like always dark text on a light background. Yeah, and those are some of the bigger ones. I don’t really have anything else like design wise. But those are three, four, however many things I was that helped I still see people making mistakes on.
Travis Ketchum 44:09
Yeah, so I guess the one question I have on on layout is like, you know, do you feel like having long sales page with the actual, you know, call to action slash checkout, all the way at the bottom of the page? Or, you know, a button at the top page who initiated you put the checkout like and when they click a button, they go to the checkout page? Is the checkout form embedded in the main page?
Bailey Proulx 44:32
Yeah, so a couple different questions here. Number one, we always have a button above the fold, meaning when they get to the page, it’s above the fold every single time it’s always one. Again, this whole stat of most people don’t scroll is definitely true. Again, you can use Hotjar to literally see there. Yeah, so always have at least one button above the fold and then have them kind of sprinkled throughout the page and every cover a big topic. Make sure you have the buttons there again, as far as the embedded versus not I’ll give you what I prefer as far as being a like a media buyer. So when you ever you have it embedded, sometimes you can help increase conversion rates, sometimes not, it’s definitely worth a test. The issue is though, there’s so many things are going on that page, you don’t know if it’s not working, like why it’s not working. compared to if you have a button that goes to a checkout page, the checkout page, you have more testimonials, you have your guarantee on there, and you have all that and you can actually put that information on there. One, you can put a lot more value on that page that they’re actually going to consume, because you don’t know they’re gonna actually going to consume anything on the sales page. And two, you can now track where the drop off is, right? Let’s say you get 20% of your people on your page to click the button. But 1% are converting. So okay, well, I got them to click, I’m gonna need to focus on that page. They’re clicking, let me just make sure I can convert them on the checkout page. What do we have it all on one page just condenses all that data. And you’re basically just, you know, throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks. And the Hotjar does help you tell what you want to fix too. But I like to break them up for those KPI reasons in general. And then also just the fact that you can make sure they consume the stuff on your checkout page. Gotcha. I have clients that do both. But we definitely prefer the latter one meaning to click the button and go to a checkout page.
Travis Ketchum 46:19
Gotcha. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Because then, you know, sort of puts a clear line in the sand about where problems are existing or not existing. Do you like to like basically do a simple lead capture when they click that button or send them right to the checkout page, and then maybe do like partial collection? You know, if you start filling it out, but then abandoned? Do you have a preference between those two? I
Bailey Proulx 46:42
think that the common thing here is you’re gonna have a drop in conversions by doing that. But is your email game that’s strong that she’ll make up for the drop of conversions in the funnel? Right? So this this was the same thing also with like, Video Sales Letter pages? So is it more important for you to know that, you know, 80% of people aren’t going to go through you might get 20% conversion rate, right? Is it more important that others 80%, that don’t make it to the next page that you know, you can pick up that amount of loss through email traffic, right, because you know, everything you put in your way is going to hurt them. So we have some clients that are really strong at email, and they want the email because they know the email and they do promos. They have all these different ways to help liquidate that, if they don’t purchase like they’re good. So they’d rather just get an influx of emails, if your email games weaker. And you’re like, I’m still learning, I’m not getting that good of open rates and click rates, then minus, we’ll just get as many people to that page as possible. So are converting them the people you do so you can practice your emails with? But that’s something to think about too even same thing with VSL. Some people go, do I want to do a lead capture and then go to the VSL? Or straight to the VSL? Same thing? Like do you want to email people every day? And do you? Do you want to do that? If so, and you’re good at it cool. If not, then let’s just get, you know, for excellent the amount of people to the VSL page, because you might have a 20% conversion rate on that on our landing page, you’ll literally get four times more people on the page, is that more important? Or is collecting email more important?
Travis Ketchum 48:08
For most people who aren’t very good at email? It’s probably smart to just reduce friction.
Bailey Proulx 48:14
I would say yes. Especially with the way the email landscape has also changed since iOS 15. Me It was that the hurt that the data on the email side. So even after since that part, emails got more difficult not to say it’s not possible, but there’s definitely more friction in that process now and reporting wise.
Travis Ketchum 48:31
Now you’re dancing into my arena, because emails were we absolutely crushed, like our average person doubles are open and click rates even with iOS 15 Doesn’t matter. I like That’s good. That’s good to hear. Yeah, we even have some people like 10 to 15. Next their previous performance. So it’s, it’s bananas,
Bailey Proulx 48:48
I might have to talk to you about some of our clients. And because yeah, that’s it’s been it’s been hitting match some of our some of our people for sure.
Travis Ketchum 48:56
Yeah, we can definitely chat about that, that later. But no, I you know, this has been really interesting about it a whole pipeline, because even people that have experienced it, it’s like, okay, well, you know, I think the more systematic approach, because even really good marketers, I think a lot of it ends up being powered by gut intuition about, you know, hey, this is kind of worked in the past, or I saw this other page, and it looked really good or whatever. And I think so few marketers, especially if they’re skew more, quote, internet marketing, right, as opposed to, like, you know, more establish slower moving businesses are are just kind of shooting from the hip. And then if they find one that works like great, I’m a genius, but it’s like, Do you know why your genius like now, the scale the, this is gonna last for more than three weeks, like you just don’t have that kind of, you know, reliability, sustainability. So these kind of tips really help.
Bailey Proulx 49:45
Great. So our third value in our company is driven decisions, and so nobody can come to us and say, so whenever we do launch a test, there’s something that every entrepreneur should take from this whenever we launch a test, or ever never have an idea, and we’re submitting creatives because we have a great get a tan. So here’s, here’s what I want to submit. Here’s why I want to submit it based off these KPIs. And here’s what I’m expecting from it. So it’s never like get I want you to create four new piece of copy. It’s like, no, yeah. Why? Like, what are the four pieces of copy? Why? What needs to change about those? And what’s the expected result? So whenever even a client comes to us to go, Yeah, you know, I just want to test this gut feeling. Say, Okay, cool. You’re paying us to be the experts, though. So let’s talk through this. Because a gut feeling is going to end up being a reflection of us at the end of the day, too. It’s like, if you have a gut feeling, it doesn’t work. It looks bad on us. It’s bad, you guys, it hurts the business. And overall, it hurts the people that your company is actually helping, which is what we push for. It’s like, yes, we like working with our clients. But like, we’re ultimately doing this to help our clients. Clients, right scale their impact. Yeah, exactly. So then they it’s like our responsibility for that. So everything, whenever someone says gut feeling instantly, no, go back to the drawing table, you need to come to us with some piece of data, or at least an expected result, not just I want to create this to greatness, like that’s, no, that’s how you progress anything in business. Here’s the data I have so far, here’s why I want to do it. And then here’s what the expected result is going to be from it. It’s one of the biggest things that you can do to progress, your business, your accounts, whatever it is, it’s the most important questions you can ask. And it makes you look at data collection, and then data aggregation way different to you, because then you actually have to look at the data. And not just guess, which for some people is hard, but it’s important.
Travis Ketchum 51:21
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Cool. Well, I think we can kind of I’ve got two more questions for you here to sort of close this out, if you don’t mind. One is for those who are much earlier in the process. You said your suggestion was, you know, hire a copywriter to try to write better ad copy, right? What are the is there like a resource for templates? Or is there a marketplace that you would suggest people to go find that kind of person or at least get better information about how to write better ads?
Bailey Proulx 51:47
So I’m not a big template fan? I’ll let you know that right now. We have had people that like templates so what we do and what I do recommend people do is like where did the copywriters aggregate like where do they hang out? And how can you tap into that? So what we do is we reach out to the owners of certain groups we say hey, you know right now we’re looking for a new copywriter specialises in XYZ Can I like pay you to make a post for me and then they’ll make a post to help people comment on the post and we can reach out to them to that post. That’s when the number one ways we found to do it, you can find them through other networks. I’ll just tell you that that hasn’t worked as well for me. So I always have them do that. And then in order to vet my copywriters, I give them a paid project. So it’s like hey, you know I had 10 people comment on here. All right, write me a piece of copy whatever your fee is 50 bucks 100 bucks. Let’s figure out what the copy is. Test them whatever copy works best. hire that person. I’ve tried every which way else to do it. And that has been my best way to actually find a quality copywriter. But just getting into the places that they aggregate and then how do you get connected with the people that that run that little bit of a process? So that’s one way to do it. Second way is there’s like copywriting like companies that help place copywriters and such I just found that good copywriters struggle with Facebook ads specifically. For some reason I don’t know why that is because I think they overcharge. They try to overcomplicate a Facebook ad Facebook ad doesn’t need to sell the whole business and like an ad they sell the click
Travis Ketchum 53:15
retreat or get actual sales whether or not America
Bailey Proulx 53:18
yeah as I’ve heard like some of the best copywriters and every single time they’re the copy font, because they just try it. They’re like I have all these skills. I want to use them on this Facebook ad. It’s like no, no, you need to keep it simple. Like
Travis Ketchum 53:28
don’t overdo one objective objective
Bailey Proulx 53:31
I think there is another company will honestly so if you’re just starting to when they actually really helps you know, my copywriters is, copy AI software’s not taking the copies you’re actually using, but to spit out ideas, and to Frankenstein them together. So you can use things like like Jarvis, you can put in your different keywords and I want to get into how to use it. But you can put in different things will spit out like 10 different pieces of copy for you. They’re actually pretty good copy and you can just Frankenstein them together. Like take this opening line put with this line. This line is your basically if you want to go with this version, this close. Yeah, and that actually works pretty well too. So we’ll have it spit out like headline ideas for us. We don’t always take that exact idea, but like it even just helped spark our inspiration like okay, cool. Never ever thought about that before. And I think there is a company here, I can’t back up this company to see if they still exist. So add zombies, we use them at one point, it was alright. But it’s definitely a good starting point. And then you can always utilise them. So add zombies did some copywriting stuff before too. And I think it was it was fairly cheap. Which is which is nice.
Travis Ketchum 54:40
Gotcha. Well, it’s definitely some helpful resources for people that are just kind of at the beginning stage. And for those who are at the working to take that next leap, like they’ve maybe had some success. So they’ve had, you know, maybe kind of breakeven but not huge success and they’re looking to say, hey, I want to get serious about cold traffic and making it worth my offers and I’ve already got it back in and right now we’re Just feeding off of, let’s say referrals and organic, but we want it, we want someone help us figure it out. What’s a great way to have someone get in touch with you? And do you have any kind of pre qualifiers of what that person would ideally look like, like where they’re at in their stage of their business, and then how they can get in touch with you.
Bailey Proulx 55:14
Yeah, the easiest way, right now is email at Bally at experts, agency.com experts agency, or Instagram too. So even if you want more advice, I have a bunch of content but on Instagram. For some reason, people like cars way more than content on Instagram. That’s bi l EY underscore PR o u LX with some cool content back there. Either one of those you get in contact me that way. In order to work with us though, we have a $15,000 a month minimum ad spend. So as long as you’re at that point, or somewhere close to that point, if you’re not 10 km month, typically we’ll we’ll take a look at and see if it makes sense. But even if you don’t know where to go, I mean, we have a few connections as agencies, I don’t trust a lot of them. There’s some that I do trust that offer things that we don’t offer that a little bit lower budgets, too. So if you’re not at that point, we can probably still figure out a way I can get help push you to a certain direction. But yeah, that’s kind of our qualifications there. And I have a bunch of free content too. So if you are managing media buying and you have a person on your team, that content is better than most of the stuff you’ll find out there. Because we spend millions of months and that’s that’s what we do.
Travis Ketchum 56:22
Cool. So generally, you want to find someone who’s already spending some amount of money on ads, and then you want to like really optimise the optimise and scale it
Bailey Proulx 56:29
back. Yeah, I figured I consider us the scalars. So like you have a business going, you’ve been spending money, even making some money, but like, you might be at like a 1.5 or 2x 4x. And you’re looking to one make more money and to actually scale. So 15k, that’s still a little bit on like a low side. But we’re experts at okay, you want to go from 15k to 50 to 100 200 without increasing your costs. And that’s really where we specialise in, which is where that question came up earlier. But we do have a lot of things that we can do like scaling out increasing costs, but that’s like a whole course in and of itself. But that’s
Travis Ketchum 57:05
cool. Well, thank you so much for your time, it’s been a real pleasure. For those of you who are looking to scale and take it to the moon, right, as everyone wants to do with their ads. You should definitely hit a bally and if you’re lower, you know, lower on the whole process. Then definitely check out those, you know, Jarvis and ad zombies and whatnot for some creative ideas. So thank you so much, Bailey.
Bailey Proulx 57:25
Perfect. Appreciate it. Travis
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